10 NOV 2021

Ghost Hunters!

We seek the truth.

We go ghost hunting in a Neolithic passage grave, taking with us an infrared robot, an EMF metre and recording equipment for EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomenon). Do we capture anything? Does anything capture us!?

What are ghosts?

Belief in ghosts and spirits is a worldwide phenomenon, it crosses cultures and ages. You’d expect modern science to taper these ideas, but surveys show over half of Americans still believe. We look at some of the theories, from stone tapes to infrasound, as we try to understand what is really going on. But reading books and articles will only get us so far, we need to seek answers ourselves with a series of ghost hunts at ancient locations.

I’m scared, I want to go back out. I’m not letting go of you.

Anton, inside the passage grave

One theory for ghosts in electromagnetic fields interfering with our brains and senses.

Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger created a device called the ‘god helmet’ which zaps your brain’s temporal lobes with electromagnetic fields. His studies showed interesting results but have been hard to replicate.

Some people have suggested the presence of infrasound is causing unusual experiences in sites that are allegedly haunted, Some organ pipes in churches and cathedrals produce infrasound and this could lead to people having very weird experiences within church and attributing it to God.

Richard Wiseman

Another potential cause of haunted feelings is infrasound.

The 2003 Infrasonic 17 Hz tone experiment exposed 700 people to deep notes from a subwoofer at the end of a seven metre long sewer pipe.

22% of of those exposed felt sorrow, panic, disorientation.

Buy Richard Wiseman’s book.

We recorded and attempted EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomenon) inside the passage grave.

The ancient, neolithic stones surrounding us were also a perfect candidate for the stone tape theory.

Further Reading


This transcript is automatically generated so may contain errors.

Welcome to.

Be curious, do you have a child?

Hey charmed.

Episode 32

And this week we.

Are ghost hunting.

Well, actually we've already been ghost hunting. Having Anton, Yep.

We have we went to a couple of different places. I think mainly one place though, which was a Dome owning guns.

E that's right, yeah. So don't win or passage grave.

So we will.

Give you some.

Of our recordings from in there later on in the show.

I'm excited for that, so I actually haven't heard the audio yet, so it's going to be exciting to see what happens.

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to see if you hear anything or not. Any kind of voices or any spooky spirit.

Now, do you believe in ghosts, Anton?

Uh, kind of.

I'm not really sure in specific places maybe.

Yeah, I I'm not sure myself either. It's definitely feelings or sensations I get so I remember up until probably fairly recently.

Actually, I used to think that I could see eyes watching me through cracks in the door and stuff like that.

And from dark corners. So you still wait to think that there are these little eyes staring back at me.

And didn't you have like a bum?

A weird pressure somewhere on your head doesn't link until you moved. While you're bed wasn't and it was fine since then.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. It was all wet. My bed is in the bedroom. It used to be.

Just on my temples in my forehead is always felt like a finger pressing down on them.

And I've never had that anywhere else, and I moved my bed a couple months ago and I've not had it since, so it's a little bit odd, so maybe there was something there.

So apparently 52% of Americans believe in ghosts, and this is actually OP.

Like 11% yeah in recent years and in the UK. Also over 50% of people believe in ghosts, so it's something that's definitely there in kind of society.

And I'm I'm quite a big podcast listener. This funny thing happens occasionally. I have a podcast on as I'm in bed falling asleep, and I, uh, I do fall asleep whilst it's still playing.

And something stops it.

With maybe a May 30 seconds or something remaining on the podcast, I don't think being me so I wouldn't wake up to know it's ending to get my slumber, press the pause button.

There is a little bit answer. Maybe the ghost that put the pressure.

On my forehead is now having.

It's just missing now. No, it's just hitting the stop button instead.

Yeah, very, very handy.

Our last episode. Remember we spoke with Tim Brown from the Paranormal Intelligence Gathering service about ghost hunting.

Yeah, I actually really enjoyed it. I think it was one of the top interviews that we've done. Our other interviews are.

Come watch with Kevin.

Thank you and.

Mr Conquers yes, yeah, so make sure you take our back catalogue delays, but Tim, he gave us some good tips in here and paste hunting.

Uh, yeah, he did actually.

Yeah, so as we said, there would be no ghost hunting ourselves to see what we could discover and actually started at home with our first ghost hunt.

We used a little robot like with a camera in it and had infrared camera I think didn't it. So we were driving around the house with it.

Yeah, so you've not seen this footage yet.

No, I remember doing it and I think you are more scared than me.

Yeah, we were hiding.

Up let me get the volume levels right.

So at the moment it's in your icon here. Yeah, and I believe it's in your room, isn't it? Not be around.

That's right, yeah, but you're seeing there be some little bits floating around there, which is probably just dust and it also made me think these one of the theories of for orbs.

Oh yeah, it's dust reflecting, isn't it?

Exactly, but I was. I was wondering.

And does dust higher up actually float around at different speed to dust lay down by the floor?

Oh yeah.

That there's no, there's no finer chair.

I think I'm over my Swiss ball.

Yes, uh reaffirming here because I was hoping that. Well, actually I wasn't hoping. The worst thing you could possibly find when your ghost hunting. Enjoying house, there's a ghost.

I think it would be terrifying.

But then I thought, well, maybe over my bed where I had this funny pressure. Perhaps I would kind of see something there. So you can probably hear the ghost. In the other case.

Not really, but.

Floating around in the background as we were exploring so you weren't spriting. Well, actually the infrared doesn't it?

Yeah, actually does black and white, but it's it's pretty cool.

But have you actually seen anything that looks suspicious or odd?

I I don't think we saw much like anything major from this footage.

Couple little flashes there, but again, probably just dust.

And we are just downstairs when we're doing this, so it's not like there will be any weird delay or anything in it.

That's right, so I'm probably going to stop this now.

Yeah, we didn't find too much in your room.

Now one of.

The theories from a more scientific perspective for gays would be electromagnetic fields.

Yep so EMF.

That's right, yes, yeah.

And so one of the tools that ghost hunters will use when they're looking is EMF metres, which actually detect the level of these fields in various locations.

And there's a belief there that maybe some spirits or beings are able to interact and manipulate these electromagnetic fields. And then that'll be the effects that people were sensing.

Now there is actually some science behind this as well, because Canadian neuro scientist Michael Persinger craze is a device called the God Helmet.

It zaps your brain or your brains temporal lobes with electromagnetic fields. They're only about as powerful as those given off by a hair dryer.

So maybe when you're drying your hair, not me, of course.

And but they're they're much more carefully and precisely targeted.

Now the idea is that when the right hand or the emotional of lobe in your brain and the left hand or the language globe in your brain are based stimulated in a particular way, your brain is trying to understand what's going on and these two.

Make sense of it and it generates what they term a sensed presence, and Persinger believes that this might explain religious experiences and perhaps also boasts as well.

There has however been difficulties in replicating this study.

So whether this actually works or not, I don't know.

I kind of wanted to.

Yeah I think would be interesting to try actually see what effect it.

Has maybe his work with the electromagnetic field supports the idea that warranted locations just have unusual kind of activity going on with the fields there.

Or maybe it's just the environment that you're in that is influencing or thoughts or feelings.

Or maybe it could it be like other peoples thoughts, and does that produce any of the?

I don't think we can project electromagnetic fields from our head.

Lapis COO.

Yeah, do you want to see the helmet the God helmet?


You ready?

It's pretty fancy.

Oh yes, oh oh. Yep, that's very high tech.

Uh, it's just like a crash helmet or some wires and stuff going into it, isn't it?

Now another theory for why people might feel odd in haunted locations is infrasound.

And this is actually a very very deep sound, and I actually asked him about him for sound joining our chat with him. He pays the idea that places like the underground hospital which already.

Echoey and very dense run it there and concrete they might actually generate. Infrasound.

And it's actually two loaf roster here. Kind of background noise that our body can pick up on, but we didn't really sense it directly.

But Tim told us that actually needs a source, such as maybe traffic noise or wind turbines, or maybe things from the natural environment as earthquakes or Thunder, or waves in the ocean, yeah?

The 2003 insular.

Infra infrasonic Yep. The 2003 infrasonic 17 Hertz tone experiment explodes 700.

People to deep notes from a subwoofer at the end of A7 metre. Long sewer pipe.

Yeah, so this was an experiment that actually took place over two different nights. There was a music concept and in each night there was infrasound played underneath different pieces of music and then they gathered the results.

But what they did on the first night, they would have the infra sound playing under the first written music saying and then the second night they'd have it playing under the second.

Of music so that they could compare the effects that it had on people. I don't think they're aware that it was going to be played.

After the UM concept, they asked people what they felt and they said that it generated feelings of disorientation and panic. 22% of concert goers felt sorrow or chills.

So they're kind of feelings you get in a.

Haunted location isn't it.

Especially panic and maybe a bit stressed or scared or something.

Yeah, so I don't actually know what the environment was like that the concept was done and so you can imagine if you're in somewhere supposedly haunted.

It's going to be.

Even more.

Intense yeah now Professor Richard Wiseman, who devised this experiment. He said, these results suggest that low frequency sound can cause people to have unusual experiences, even though.

They cannot consciously detect infrasound. Science scientists have suggested that this level of sound may be present at some alleged haunted sites, and they can cause people to have odd sensations that they attribute to a ghost. Our findings support these ideas.

Done, done, done.

So I think.

There's definitely some sense, and I wasn't there.

So our 2nd guest, something location was a Neolithic Passage grave, wasn't it? Yeah.

Could even be 5000 years old.

Yeah, so you're a lot of history though, isn't there?

But strangely, you don't really hear about like a caveman ghosts. So maybe there's like a.

No, you say actually.

A ghost life, but then, once you've done your ghost life, somehow you go into. I don't know, uh, reincarnation or heaven or whatever, or whatever you choose, I guess.

Yeah, he's that made spike in the background.

You know, maybe any traces that are leftover they fade out with time. Now the domain itself is actually quite near the case up, so maybe under the correct conditions may be a stormy day or there's really rough winds and the waves are crashing against the shore. Perhaps that could actually generate infrasound.

In that location.

I'm not totally sure though, as the entrance faces away from the sea. Actually, lines with the spring equinox, so the sun was shining and turn the Akron Oxwich quite calmly.

Into the doorway.

Wait, maybe if we went there.

At the correct time when it was rising or setting whatever like into it would find something.

It may have been used by Neolithic people for perhaps even a couple of 1000 years, so think of all the energy in history that being put into that.

Place by people there.

Seems so good place. I don't think we did find nothing though.

Ah, you haven't had the recordings yet.

There are actually human bones discovered on the site.

But at some point it stopped being used, it was forgotten and was buried in the literal sands of time and remained hidden for several 1000 years.

Scary yeah.

Now I've got an 1854 account here from Ferdinand Bloch Topper on the rediscovery.

Do you recognise the name Brock? Yep.

Yeah, he was actually the son of Sir Isaac Brock, sister Elizabeth.

And this is from one of his old books. I love the title. It's called history of Guernsey and it's bailiwick, with occasional notices of Jelly.

As good.

Cromlech at Lang Chris in the year 1811 a large cromlech was accidentally discovered completely buried with drifts and on an eminence near the beach at Langres in Glanze.

It is 45 feet in length by 15 feet in width and nearly eight feet in height within the area at the western end.

Once it gradually contracts on each side and at the top near the eastern end.

The space is covered by five large and two smaller blocks of granite which are not in contact. The Western bloc is computed to weigh about 30 tonnes.

It's being nearly 17 feet long, 10 a half wide, and four and a half thick, and it was probably placed there by the means of rollers.

The second block.

Is 16 feet long in the third smaller, and so they drastically diminish until the 7th.

This fine cromlech was left filled and most imperfectly explored until the year 1837, when after considerable labour was cleared of sand and it's primaeval contents exposed at the expense and through the Antiquarium Zale of FC Lucas.

He was the guy who excavated that I remember learning. That's cool. I think he spent like 10 years.

Or one of them.

On the floor were found two layers consisting of human bones earns. Of course red and black, clay stone and Trey omelettes and beads, bowling pins ETC.

For layers like, those of cysts were separated by flat fragments of granite, the lower stratum was laid in a rude pavement.

On natural soil.

The remains were deposited in a singular manner.

The unburnt bones occupied either under the floor, the middle third being allotted to those which had been submitted to the action of fire, not of the stage of charcoal was was to be detected with them. The bones of individual skeletons were heaped together confusedly.

And each heap surrounded by a ring of round flat pebbles. The urns which were of remarkably rude shape and material being near or within the rings.

Some heaps consisted, as it were, of parents and child ashes, mingled together for within the same link of pebbles where the bones are.

Persons of all ages.

An unusual quantity of bones are very young. Children were found. The narrow stratum only contained burnt bones, among which likewise a few tasks off the boar, perhaps worn as trophies of the chase and consigned to the fire with the dead hunters body.

4 flat discs from 6 to 12 inches in diameter and one in thickness formed from the same, whereas the urns were also found and doubtless surfed as lids for some of the arms which had broad flat edges.

As these leaders were furnished with central handles, it may be inferred that the urns were replenished from time to time. The Chrome legs being a holy vote or catacomb.

In no instance was the urn used to contain the ashes of dead, and it was doubtless filled with liquid or food. Some were quite entire, and of those broken, many had been restored.

As time in ages elapsed, and possibly as all memory of the departure became lost, their remains were removed to make room for others.

Basically removed, replaced.

In the interval.

Between the props and we're lost. The sight of further space being again required many cartloads of limpet shells and a little yellow clay was screwing up on the original deposit, and flat stains has already said or placed over all.

Form a new floor.

So that's kind of why we changed the location because it was used for maybe hundreds or thousands of years as the base of barrel on worship and really like agree full place as well.

With hauntings, you need somewhere where there's been a lot of energy kind of put into place by people.

When she visited it twice, didn't we?

Yep, once in the day I'm one. There are night time.

Yeah, some set thinking that maybe the transition from day to night would be a more energetic time.

Then we went down there we took an EMF metre with us and whilst we were recording the passage grave but we didn't really manage to record any anything of interest on that unfortunately.

But we tried some EVP which is electronic voice phenomena.

That's right, we did, and this involved was asking any spirits that may be present or inhabiting their location to answer some questions for us.

And then after as you can analyse the audio and try and extract any any sign of their presence from it.

Now you haven't heard these yet, have you?

On time, but I've got our recordings here.


So what I've done with each recording is it's got us talking and then I play the response three times we've got an opportunity to listen to it, OK.


So let's see what we've discovered, shall we, Yep, so the first recording is from where we went down during the daytime. Let's head over. Do it now.

We're now heading in to the dolmen using our EVP. That's electronic voice phenomenon app to see if we pick anything up. Are you OK on time?

He's scarce OK.

Is there anybody here? Can you tell us your name, please?

Second, OK, so that noise is me trying to enhance and change the levels and just extract any sound that could be in there. OK, so I'm going to Page 1 a couple of times.

I did. I did hear something. It was like.

I want to do here.

Or or.

There is some background noise on here as well. I think there's a motorbike at one point, but if you hear anything you can pause. OK, you can just touch the bottom.


Is there anybody here please? Can you tell us your name? We mean no harm?

OK, that one. That one seems more.

Something like that.

OK, so if you listen carefully and so we might take a bit of whispering. Does not this one?

That definitely does sound very spooky.

If there's anyone here, can you make noises or copy me?

2nd that that actually does feel like.

Except just two tops, possibly.

It sounds like a zip being done, but we didn't ship anything out. We didn't have zips.

It does.

Try that again.

If there's anybody here, please, can you tap twice?

Second, later break.

She soon about.

OK, on the next recording I I thought I need to show a bit more respect to their location, so I kind of dig it up a bit here OK?

If there's anybody here in the Stoneman, we mean you no harm, but we'd love to know if you still inhabit this amazing place of power, ease tap if you can hear us.

It's at the end, listen, listen.

It does.

It does.

Yeah, OK, let's go OK mind your head on.

The way out.

That does at the end we played it three times that last one, and it goes for a while and then it goes bum bum.

I didn't catch that, actually, no.

Did you know?

That is there a way that you can?

I I can't go back and forth on that one.

Did you already know it was so clear like?

It it stopped and then went and went.

They're quite grainy these recordings, but it's difficult because everybody says don't even manipulate them. Otherwise you you start trying to pull things out yourself.

So what I've done here is basically amplify the sound and play with the levels of the different frequencies and try and remove some of the.

Face background noise and do as little manipulation as I could.


So we also returned at night time, didn't we? So yeah, it was really dark there, wasn't it? So you ready for this recording?

He was.

We have returned to LVD Dolman now at sunset. Why do you think they've come at this time on time?

So we can find something goes.

The old days hunting, but this is a Neolithic dolmen or passage break, isn't it? We're coming down a little infrared robot here and you could imagine in Neolithic times at that sunset would be a really important time winter.

It's the end of day and the start.

Of night.

They might have measured times and like when the moon came stuff so days.

But they might have measured time in that, so you can do like.

There were 5000 moons before bloody blouse.

Yeah, the lunar calendar maybe more important, yeah?

So should we enter the doorman?

OK, yeah.

Let's go.

That sounds very sad.

And we got in mind your head.

In fact, your home.

OK, I've gone in time for web made now.

I had something drop your right.

Wanna go back up?

So let's see if we can actually let's turn.

On the other way again.

I'm not letting go.

There's more here, that's fine.

OK, yeah, you might have just had then I said I'm not letting go of you. I actually didn't like.

I was clutching onto his arm the whole time she was something really annoying 'cause he you had your hands full the whole time.

Well yeah, I was trying to hold recording equipment and you had the iPad. They can join the raid, but yeah, right, it's resume.

I keep holding me. Am I still recording? Yes, right, let's see.

We enter your space, meaning you no harm if there's anybody here, please can you give us some sort of symbol or some sign?

Now I tried a slightly different technique in these recordings up just to see if he could pull anything else out. So you your hair maybe a little bit more kind of electronic distortion.

I think that the first technique might be better.

But we'll see.

That actually is kind of weird because you are like changing it then I think and it didn't sound like the last one where I had two taps at the end, like when you're changing it at the noise of that. Anyway, I had curious so.

I'm happy about it.

Now the things remember when we were in there it was.

We couldn't hear a thing, could we?

No, we couldn't hear anything.

It was, it was.

Pretty much pitch black and silent. It comes you curious about who you are meeting any friendship.

2nd, that's all I had.

I was actually.

Thinking about this, what language are you speaking?

They might not understand us or us understand them.

That probably just talking dog.

I'll go rogue.

Oh, that's one of my favourite books as a kid.

Are you holding my hand downtown?

Separately time.

It's not entirely, I know works well for us.

It does start.

Not that I'm looking at these little lights. There's a whole isn't there, yes?

That's just being like coming through for me.

At least I hoped it was anyway.

Just bringing back scary memories for you.

No, I actually can't remember it.

You blocked out. Yep, I did traumatised childhood.

Something dropping and dripping there.

Yeah it is because it was raining earlier was not. I think that's probably why.

That's true.

So just the largest dolman or passage grave rather in the islands that's still standing.

Almost looks like there's things painted on the wall there carved, isn't it so much better?

Lee had infrared technology.

If there's anybody here with us, please make your presence known. We mean you no harm.

Was that one of us making the noises?

No that.

Whatever it was.

I don't know.

We tried to stay as still as.

We could and.

And this is more heavily manipulated than the first sounds.

So perhaps it's picking up these Rudy's like faint noises.

And then distorting them.

Second, I'm gonna go tonight.

We now have a lighter in here. I think that noise at the end was just me preparing to speak again. One of us preparing to speak in. Take a breath.

At the end, and then what about?

The other two or three or whatever it was.

But again, that might just be our breathing.

Because the microphone is quite close to us.

Right, let's carry on.

Top twice if you can hear us.

I can't hear anything, but maybe when?

We checked the footage afterall.

And let's just.

Have a quick cheque in this corner.

Do not worry, it sounds like I'm crying, but I'm not. So don't worry about it.

Don't take my son from me.

This sweats dripping.

Super Spain.

Should the right to the right.

To the right, yeah.

What's the other room there?


I think.

Yeah, are you going on them please?

I don't even know what I'm saying.

No no no.

Leaving me alone in the dark.

How is that? Is that right now?

Like it wasn't physically scared.

I just didn't enjoy it.

OK, well we'll end it there, I think.

'cause otherwise it's just going to be me moaning about.

How, how much I didn't like it?

This is a.

God's case, isn't it to be want to get back in there and I'll film you from out here.

So we're gonna return to the studio and see if we can discover anything later on our footage or our audio that we've recorded so.

He doesn't get something on time.

Not probably. The user location people come to is.

That we want to try something a little bit different.

Well, I hope the microphone is picking up a little bit funny. Got our hands full here. These extra hands really.

No idea what I said at.

The end though, Yep.

Extra hands.

But we actually record a little bit more than that, because on the first day during the daytime we actually went into the Doleman.

Came out again to look at the sign on the outside to get the age of it and then went back in.

And so I've got one more shorter recording here. OK, from the first day and this is, I think the best thing we captured. So you ready.

If you are here, please tell us your name. You mean no harm.

Leave please.

Leave feeds.

Yes, that last time I made a bit clearer to hopefully you had. I've not skip back a few seconds under sunlight.

Please please yeah.

Yeah, kinda, maybe maybe they're trying to say something other than leave please, but it does sound like a leaf. Please to me.

Yeah it does bit speaking but again.

Is that spirit or is it just the manipulation of the audio?

But another theory for ghosts from gays hunters. It's what's called the stone tape theory.

And this is where large stones are thought to be able to capture the energy from their location. Now the largest captured in there is 10 tonnes of solid run. It's there's a lot.

Of stain, isn't it?

In 1837 Charles Babbage do.

You know he he is.

I've heard of his name.

Yeah, he's at the father of computing. He published the 9th Bridgewater Treaties and in that he speculated that spoken words could leave an impression in the air due to sound waves being transferring their motion between particles so.

How sound works.

This idea was further expanded by the likes of this Society for Psychical Research and they theorised that places and buildings can store memories of events, particularly those which are traumatic or emotional.

And under the correct circumstances. These recordings can then be replayed.

So maybe the passageway that we went into is a good candidate for that because it's a place with many, many years of kind of mental energy.

Now Tim sent us his best EVP recordings and you've not heard these yet either. So these are from the my wrist battery over here in Ghanzi. So what's the minus battery?

It's like a cool bunker.

He has a large gun emplacement. Wasn't it built by the Germans and the Second World War?

The poem

You got it.

Did you put in?

Work and.

Judith Ann.

Did you dye his bunker?

Can you tell me your name, please?

That's that's quite clear.

You want.

Me to go make a sound.

Party chairman

Are you German?

Careful, somebody that one of the other rooms.

Did you work here?

Do you want us to go?

Can you tell us why you're in this bunker?

I just know you're with us.

Speak to me saying hey.

Can you tell me why you're here?

They're all very polite.

Show me over here.

So what do you think of that on top?

Been speaking.

Didn't get the first ones were.

The creepiest ones.

Yeah, so clearer than ours, but also sounded more manipulated than what I was doing, doesn't it? But can you remember back to our perception episode?

Kind of.

And the sine wave speech.

No I.

Didn't remember the same ways speech.

Probably I'll probably recognise it in a minute, but I've got a very bad memory.

OK, so this is the sine wave speech from our perception.

Apps to listen to this?

What did that say?

Oh this thing. It's like the girl ironed shirt or something.

This is a new one, so listen to that again so you.


The boy kicked the ball at night.

Right here we go. This will be.

The actual speech.

The floor was quite slippery.

Oh my God.

So do you understand that now? Yeah, so.

Yep, it's weird.

I think that there might be something similar going on in the brain there.

As perhaps wanted to hear from some of the VP and these sounds where our brains are designed to find voices.

And there's actually just in August of this year. There's a new study released in the biology of cell.

And apologise for.

The sale, journalism, biology journal and and in IT researchers have actually turned on its head or understanding of how the brain processes voices. So until now, we believe that it works in a similar way to the visual system.

So starting with light hitting our eyeballs and then that forming abstract shapes and lines in our head and then more more details being added and more more recognition being added. But now.

There was a neuro scientist, Liberty Hamilton and neurosurgeon Edward Chang, and they discovered that different parts of the brain actually processed sound in parallel.

What they're saying is speech processing itself can actually bypass the auditory cortex in the brain.

So in other words, there's a part of our brain, the superior temporal gyrus, and that's actually specifically developed just for understanding voices.

And they discovered this by stimulating different parts of people's brains when they were having operations, and they found that if they turned off one part of it, and that's a quote from one of the people here, saying I could hear you speaking, but I.

Couldn't make out your words.

So the actual understanding part of the brain is separate from some of the hearing parts.

So what else might cause go sometime?

I don't know, uh?

People believing in them as probably quite a crucial part, and as we were talking about in the beginning, over half of Americans believe in this and half of people in the UK.

As well.

Yeah, that's right. I actually wanted to find numbers for other countries. That's to see if there's any difference. Labour Lee.

But unfortunately couldn't find any of those.

And you might think that with modern science, less and less people would believe in case these days, or even just things like electric lighting, which kind of castaway the shadows and mystery of the Knights would kind of kill gates dead, but it doesn't seem to be the case and was not directly related to ghosts. If you heard of the 1962 Salem witch trials.

No, but they really show the power of belief so.

1962 it's 1692.

Look, I've got numerical.

Dyslexia, but have you heard of the 1692?

Salem witch trials.

OK, they really clearly show the power of belief, I think.

So this is in America and there's a small Puritan village called Salem. There were some witch trials there, and it wasn't a particular pleasant time to be living there. They think, and they were most likely caused by rotten rye.

So you know the grain.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Yeah, now there's a fungus called ergot and that grows on rye and it contains lysergic acid and.

The gutter mine. These compounds or chemicals they can cause severe convulsions, muscular spasms, delusions, the sensation of crawling under the skin, and severe hallucinations.

So when some girls in the town of or the village of Salem, they started behaving oddly and then this.

Behaviour spread to other village fake and they were accused of being witches.

So again, this is an effect from the environment, isn't it? And people not understanding what's going on and then using their beliefs to try and make sense of it.

That's Maloney wrap myths at school at the moment, and that's Mr we're talking about, like how myths are stories to fill in gaps.

Some stuff and like what things that people don't understand.

So it's a little bit like that.

Yeah, yeah, so they can understand the behaviour of like the young girls in the village and thought that they were casting spells and other people who started acting oddly.

So by the end of the trials in May 16, 9319, people have been hanged, one had been crushed by stones and four had died in prison, so.

Pretty grizzly, so if anybody.

Can be haunted. You could imagine it being there as.

Well, it's maybe by.

Killing these, which is an inverted commas, actually created something far more scary.

But I think this shows the combination of environmental effects and belief coming together so occurred. Other events from history account for historical stories or hauntings.

Have you had any ghostly experiences, Anton?

Not really, I mean maybe the EVP recordings just then.

But not really.

Yeah, oh, there's someone that's school who claims they've seen a ghost. So it's like in a dark dark room and they saw a shadow walk across.

Really OK.

And I've already had any or many experiences myself, but I think even up until quite recently I still had a fear there.

I I didn't.

Like always, being in dark places by myself. It's it's odd. It's irrational, I think because I was old enough to look at. While I am. I would love to look after myself and.

And actually, as I was preparing for this episode, I was doing my research alone in the dark.

And it was.

An uncomfortable feeling 'cause I've been listening to these recordings and preparing them and reading about ghosts and.

I may I start to get prickly sensations at my back.

But one experience that I have.

Had is sleep paralysis.

This can have some odd effects on people and doing normal sleep. You got your REM stage, haven't you? So that's right, yeah, and that's when you're dreaming and when that.

Rapid eye movement.

Happens you lose.

Or your body lose the controls of your muscles.

Oh, it's really cool 'cause it so if you are like moving got really fast or like trying to run or something you feel really slow like you can't move it's it's quite cool.

Yeah, yeah.

But because you don't want to act out your dreams, you actually your body is paralysed. You don't have any muscle control.

But it is possible to wake up during that time and you will start becoming conscious of your surroundings. But your body is paralysed and it's a really weird sensation. But because you're still in that slightly.

Dream like state. It's actually common to suffer hallucinations during this sleep paralysis state, and then you might have something called night hags.

And people will kind of feel maybe a weight on their chest and they will see the dark, shadowy figure pinning them down to their bed.

And because you can't move, but you're starting to become conscious, you actually you get a feeling of panic rising in you. So again, your mind is trying to make sense of what's going on.

Swiss yeah.

One other sensation I've had now I would have been a little bit older than you. I think I was in running ramps, his old house and I would lie in.

Bed and this house has made in built in 1827.

So we'll granite house, so maybe you take the stone tape theory. Now. These big granite walls hold or capture that energy from the generations of people who lived there.

And I would lie in bed.

And I'll be deadly silent. No, like it to hear us.

Are you sure you weren't breathing like that like when you are in?

Bed I was hiding my breath under the covers.

And I could hear it just this breathing. And I don't. There's nobody in the room with me and.

You really used to freak me out.

That's weird.

Yeah, but I blame my older brother and sister as well. For traumatising me. There's things like this, which that we had from Sark which they used to teach me around with.

So funny.

You always say many traumatising.

What do you think of go sometime today? Are you a believer or do?

Now, after listening to that recording, I feel like they are more real.

You think the science explains it?

But I'm still not sure.

So you don't think that recordings maybe the OJ being heavily manipulated and then our brains wanting to hear sound or voice?

I don't know, but I'm gonna I'm gonna.

Ask some my friends at school about this. See what they think. Maybe if I can I'll get the get them to listen to the podcast and or this episode at least and then.

So that you can listen to the EVP recordings.

There's certainly something going on there because.

Whether it's.

Disembodied spirits, or just something with our brain people, are scared of or had these shared experiences, so it might just be a survival instinct from when we used to live in more dangerous environments than we do today or or it could still be something more. I mean you can't write off 100% as as Tim said, when we're chatting to him.

So I certainly had fun ghost hunting.

I didn't at the time, but I looking back at it I like.

It yeah, sorry for traumatising at the time.

And I think that's probably a wrap.


Thank you, thank you, I already answered chase that.

Listeners, what do you think? Get in contact with us on Twitter?

At Curie, charred pod.

Or in Scrum at.

Curie charged pod.

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Hello, at the curiosity of recharge.

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Well done yeah, so let.

US know if you've got.

Any ghostly stories we want to hear from you?

Or just follow us on social media, get in touch, contact us we want.

To hear from you all.

One of the bigger genres of podcasting is true crime, and I don't think we've listened to any podcasts like that, hopefully.

Now, I've never listened to a true crime podcast, but I have one here from a podcast called California True Crime. When I listen to a few other episodes recently and here's their trailer.

California has the largest population in the United States and the site of some of the most famous true crime cases in history. But there's more than meets the eye to the crime in California.

Join Sean Jessica and Charles on the California True Crime Podcast as they cover crime, both infamous and overlooked from around our state. While looking at the deeper history that goes beyond beaches and movie stars.

That was very good, very good.

That was, that was Roy sounds production there on time superb and we are also a member of the That's not Canon Network which also have loads of good podcasts.

Of their own.

So make sure you cheque them out at. That's not canon.com.

Visit our way.


Vigorously for child com and our store.

Shop dot the curious overcome. We've actually added some new merchandise recently there.

We have it's very well designed.

Yep and cheque out my gaming channel on YouTube up, which is the curiosity of gaming and we do also have the podcast on YouTube as well, which is the curiosity of a child.

When I can be bothered to.

Update yeah yeah.

Anyway, thank you very much for listening. I hope you enjoyed the show and I also hope that you're still able to get.

To sleep after hearing all these scary voices.


They laugh now, but it won't be for long.

2nd so you get the.

Sound effect, yeah, I think we need some better.

Sound effects.

And those ones, yeah anyway.

Thank you very much and we will chatty.

See you next time, bye.

Bye love you?